Vermont Senate Votes to Close Nuclear Plant

[hiroto]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/us/25nuke.html

Following up on my post - VT is nuclear state. I'm curious why this article doesn't mention the fact that currently nuclear provides majority of Vermont's electric power.

 

[deadheadskier]

dumb

imo, more nuclear power should be pursued nationally not less.

 

[riverc0il]

dumb

imo, more nuclear power should be pursued nationally not less.

Agreed. It is ironic that folks traditionally in the 'environmental crowd' are the most against nuclear power despite it being better than the current alternatives. If done correctly, at least. Which I think that is what the VT power plant is really about... from all the news I have heard, the plant was horrendously managed and it appears the management company lied to the state about certain issues.

 

[roark]

If done correctly, at least. Which I think that is what the VT power plant is really about... from all the news I have heard, the plant was horrendously managed and it appears the management company lied to the state about certain issues.

^ This.

And that it's falling apart and has been in operation far long than it was originally designed for and recently opeated at 20% greater than it's original intended operating capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_yankee

And there's the waste issue... where's Russia's waste now? Wait, no one knows? Sweet.

 

[TheBEast]

That plant employees a boat load of people in southern VT.....not good. I hope they have a back-up plan for who/what's going to supply all that power now......I'm sure they that'll be an "oh wait we didn't think about that...." moment.

 

[Puck it]

Two words

Bloom Energy!!!

BTW I like Nuclear power as well for the masses.

 

[witch hobble]

Maybe they could just lop off Vernon. Give it to Mass as a neighborly gesture.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/us/25nuke.html

Following up on my post - VT is nuclear state. I'm curious why this article doesn't mention the fact that currently nuclear provides majority of Vermont's electric power.

I don't think 35% is a majority of Vermont's electrical usage. The problems VY and has the past few years compounded by the recent radiation leakages bringing into the light of day the company's cover-ups I don't anyone who have the facts had any doubt which way the vote would go.

The plant was designed to expire om 2012, it's sister plant, Maine Yankee was closed and dismantled about 8 years ago.

They are already talking about replacing it with a new nuclear plant buoyed by Obama's new nuclear plant construction inititive. About time. Replacing the energy is not an issue. Surplus energy is availible from the grid and Hydro Quebec( currently provides about 30% of Vermont's power, much cleaner and safer hydro power) announced a couple of months ago they would be happy to provide the additional power.

Many Vermonters, like myself, are pro nuclear as part of answer getting off the middle east oil teat but extending this particular plant's usage is crazytown IMHO.

 

[Geoff]

The US is not "on the middle east oil teat". We get our oil from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Saudi Arabia is the only place in the Middle East where we import oil and it is a relatively small contribution.

Vermont's all time peak electrical draw was 900-something megawatts decades ago when electric heat was more common. Nuke plants typically put out 600 to 1000 megawatts. One plant is sufficient to run the state.

When the Quebec hydro contract expires in a couple of years, elctricity prices are going to soar in Vermont. When Vermont Yankee closes, it will just get worse. I think that will lead to the closing of the IBM plant in Essex Junction, the state's largest employer. That will turn Chittenden County into a mini-Cleveland. The plant has been for sale. IBM has let the fab lines become obsolete. When electricity jumps, it closes and moves to Asia.

Vermont Yankee is a disaster. I fault the last 2+ decades of lapsed regulation. We've seen it in banking and finance. The NRC is another issue. Vermont Yankee is not regulated properly. It should have been scheduled for replacement a decade ago with another nuke plant with a modern safe design.

I caught the news tonoght. Some state senator was going on about renewable energy sources. What a moron. It just ain't possible to supply more than a small fraction of electricity with zero CO2 renewable sources. Nuclear is the only viable solution. It makes for a great feel-good sound bite but it will put Vermont back into the stone age.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The US is not "on the middle east oil teat". We get our oil from Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela. Saudi Arabia is the only place in the Middle East where we import oil and it is a relatively small contribution.

Vermont's all time peak electrical draw was 900-something megawatts decades ago when electric heat was more common. Nuke plants typically put out 600 to 1000 megawatts. One plant is sufficient to run the state.

When the Quebec hydro contract expires in a couple of years, elctricity prices are going to soar in Vermont. When Vermont Yankee closes, it will just get worse. I think that will lead to the closing of the IBM plant in Essex Junction, the state's largest employer. That will turn Chittenden County into a mini-Cleveland. The plant has been for sale. IBM has let the fab lines become obsolete. When electricity jumps, it closes and moves to Asia.

Vermont Yankee is a disaster. I fault the last 2+ decades of lapsed regulation. We've seen it in banking and finance. The NRC is another issue. Vermont Yankee is not regulated properly. It should have been scheduled for replacement a decade ago with another nuke plant with a modern safe design.

I caught the news tonoght. Some state senator was going on about renewable energy sources. What a moron. It just ain't possible to supply more than a small fraction of electricity with zero CO2 renewable sources. Nuclear is the only viable solution. It makes for a great feel-good sound bite but it will put Vermont back into the stone age.

We do not get all our oil from the middle east but we do get a bunch from SA and Iran. Venuzuala is not exactly friendly to the US . Your predictions about a disaster if VY closes are not based on fact. The Vermont PSC has said several times replacing the energy is not an issue. I'll take their word over yours....sorry.

We can provide a big percentage of our power with renewables but we have to have a committment to start. Washington Cooperative Electric is already providing all their customers(2500 people) electrical needs with a biomass plant in Coventry in the NEK as just one example.

The closing of Maine Yankee, while I was living in Maine, produced the same arguments your presenting. Power costs would sky rocket, economic disaster would result. Guess what, 5 years after it was closed, none of it happened.

 

[deadheadskier]

The closing of Maine Yankee, while I was living in Maine, produced the same arguments your presenting. Power costs would sky rocket, economic disaster would result. Guess what, 5 years after it was closed, none of it happened.

Well.......Maine's economy was a disaster prior and remains so today, so..............

 

[Geoff]

We do not get all our oil from the middle east but we do get a bunch from SA and Iran. Venuzuala is not exactly friendly to the US . Your predictions about a disaster if VY closes are not based on fact. The Vermont PSC has said several times replacing the energy is not an issue. I'll take their word over yours....sorry.

We can provide a big percentage of our power with renewables but we have to have a committment to start. Washington Cooperative Electric is already providing all their customers(2500 people) electrical needs with a biomass plant in Coventry in the NEK as just one example.

The closing of Maine Yankee, while I was living in Maine, produced the same arguments your presenting. Power costs would sky rocket, economic disaster would result. Guess what, 5 years after it was closed, none of it happened.

I said that when the Quebec hydro contract expires, I think that will trigger IBM shutting their Essex Junction plant. The Vermont PSC is a hick organization in a state with 600K people. It's not like Montpelier attracts deep thinkers in hack government jobs. Vermont Yankee just heaps onto the core problem since it reduces the supply of electricity available in Vermont.

2500 people with a biomass plant. We're saved! The solution does not scale. It's feel-good sound bites. Vermont will be importing the vast majority of its electricity which puts it at the mercy of the spot market. Industrial use is going to be a big problem.

 

[spring_mountain_high]

mark me down firmly on the pro-nuke side...we just need to get that spent fuel repository done and done right

 

[hiroto]

I don't think 35% is a majority of Vermont's electrical usage.

Not sure how to break down by usage, but on generation side, nuclear is majority of VT's capacity. From DOE's latest monthly report for Oct 2009, 464 GWh nuclear power were generated out of 600GWh total.

 

[Puck it]

Not sure how to break down by usage, but on generation side, nuclear is majority of VT's capacity. From DOE's latest monthly report for Oct 2009, 464 GWh nuclear power were generated out of 600GWh total.

I have seen stats that VT electricity uusage was 75% from Vt Yankeee and 25% from all other sources.

 

[bigbog]

^ This.

And that it's falling apart and has been in operation far long than it was originally designed for and recently opeated at 20% greater than it's original intended operating capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_yankee

And there's the waste issue... where's Russia's waste now? Wait, no one knows? Sweet.

Agree with most previous..especially the unaccounted-for nuclear material, but big oil $$$ doesn't go into grassroots programs against Green-only technologies. Wouldn't surprise me to find big oil $$$ somewhere in the mix. Very true about waste storage, but I think at present....nuclear waste...accounted for...and attended to, is doing far less damage than the fossil fuel and chemical waste.

>[skiresortobserver]Venuzuala is not exactly friendly to the US .
I think that's because corporations...ie and Washington don't hold much love for Chavez(and vice versa), and the people aren't that warm with Chavez...the last I paid attention to....maybe has changed.

Washington wants two things = more $$$ and more power throughout the world.

$.01

 

[Geoff]

Agree with most previous..especially the unaccounted-for nuclear material, but big oil $$$ doesn't go into grassroots programs against Green-only technologies. Wouldn't surprise me to find big oil $$$ somewhere in the mix. Very true about waste storage, but I think at present....nuclear waste...accounted for...and attended to, is doing far less damage than the fossil fuel and chemical waste.

>[skiresortobserver]Venuzuala is not exactly friendly to the US .
I think that's because corporations...ie and Washington don't hold much love for Chavez(and vice versa), and the people aren't that warm with Chavez...the last I paid attention to....maybe has changed.

Washington wants two things = more $$$ and more power throughout the world.

$.01

We're talking about electricity generation. That is produced with coal. This whole converstation about oil is nonsense. If you want to cut your CO2 emissions, the only way to do it is with nukes. We need to have a standardized design for a Nuclear power plant and process in place to operate them safely. Vermont Yankee obviously needs to be shut down but "renewable" just ain't the answer and Quebec Hydro is going to be much more expensive in a couple of years. The earthy-crunchy VPIRG people will be lying in front of bulldozers if anyone tries to replace Vermont Yankee with a new & modern nuclear power plant.

 

[Warp Daddy]

So let me know when the bubble bursts so i can pick up a ski chalet for a dime on the dollar

 

[ski_resort_observer]

We need to get away from any oil as a fuel source as the bulk of proven, remaining oil reserves in the world today are located in the Middle East. In the Middle East there are an estimated 727 billion barrels of oil in reserve. The amount of oil in the Middle East far outstrips what is available anywhere else on Earth. People who not able to look at this from a future perspective are the reason we are in the current mess today.

Vermont Yankee has the capacity to provide 73% of our electrical needs but only supplies 35% of Vermont energy needs. From the NRC:
"It provided Vermont with nearly three-fourths (73%) of its electrical generating capacity prior to the 2006 and currently meets 35% of the overall energy requirements of the state"

As I mentioned before nuclear can play an important role. The other day on CNBC there was a CEO, can't remember the company or the state, who said they have all the permits and the financing to begin construction of two brand new nuke plants. That's a good thing.

Geoff - Rome wasn't built in a day.....My example with a biomass plant just shows it can be done. The 2500 wind turbines spinning in Texas helps too. People with your "he's a moron" or "were saved" comments are the very people that want to keep us in the stone age. Luckily, most are finally getting it. It's going to take years to have the many diferent renewable energy sources a part of our future energy solution but only if we start now.

 

[Euler]

... The Vermont PSC is a hick organization in a state with 600K people. It's not like Montpelier attracts deep thinkers in hack government jobs. Vermont Yankee just heaps onto the core problem since it reduces the supply of electricity available in Vermont.

2500 people with a biomass plant. We're saved! ...

It's hard not to get nasty when debating someone who uses words like "hick organization" and "earthy crunchy VPIRG people", and who calls a VT state senator a "moron" for discussing renewable energy.

But, I'll try...

You seem to be saying above that you have no respect for the PSC since they only represent a SMALL state with very few (600K) people. Then you seem to go on and say that remewable energy is a flawed premise because it only works on a SMALL scale...am I missing something?

BTW, I'm glad you agree that even if (and it's a huge if) any nuke plant could be managed safely, that VT Yankee is not such a plant and that shutting it down is a good idea.