Agree or disagree

[ski_resort_observer]

Curious if you folks agree or disagree with this observation posted on EpicSki?

"This brings up an intersesting subject. On numerous East Coast forums, and even on this one, you see discussions regarding poaching closed runs. It seems that for EC skiers, especially the more powder obsessed, they find it an acceptable practice to duck ropes. I'm not going to go off here on whether that is right or wrong, but I think that sometimes EC skiers heading West are just doing the same thing that is *somehwhat* acceptable where they are from".

Powdr

Here is a link to the entire thread so as not to take this statement out of context.
http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?p=479103#post479103

 

[BeanoNYC]

Hmmmm, don't know. I would sooner poach an EC run that I know than a WC run that I'm not familiar with.

 

[riverc0il]

i have never skied the west coast, but when i do so, i definitely will NOT be poaching runs whereas i do so occasionally in new england when i am familiar with the terrain and/or know what i am getting myself into. often times, runs on the east coast are roped due to thin cover which is negligable in my opinion. i prefer to have runs open unless there is real danger that an expert skier can not avoid. however, runs on the east coast are judged to be open or closed not on the merits of the typical expert skier but rather on the average skier that goes down those runs. whereas out west, a lot of runs are roped for avalanche danger, true lack of cover, and a host of other dangerous reasons. poaching runs in the east, if done so with intelligence, forethought, care, and knowledge of the trail and conditions will generally not result in an extremely dangerous situation (pending you are not skiing by yourself and don't get hurt), but i think out west the chances of a poached run being dangerous are far higher.

i don't know why east coasters skiing out west would even think of poaching runs. knowing the terrain and knowing conditions are key to doing so safely and that takes a bit of experience to build up. most east coasters don't have a heck of a lot of experience out west, so i would err on the side of caution and trust the pros.

 

[AdironRider]

I rarely poach as it usually means thin cover here in the east but when I do its usually if Ive seen the whole trail from a lift, or looking down from above etc and have some familiarity with the terrain. Perfect example was when I poached 1 foot untracked manmade pow on True Grit at Waterville in the first week of January. The only reason the trail was roped was there was a creek bed 3/4 of the way down that had yet to fill in, other than that the trail was money. You could jump the creek, but not everyone would be able to do it so the trail was roped. Those were some of my best turns of the season might I add. Out west I dont think Id temp fate as easily. Maybe if a local was leading the way, but otherwise Id stay away.

 

[kingslug]

Poaching a closed run out west could trigger an avy and kill people. The recent avy at LCC that almost killed an entire family when it swept there car off the road is an example of how dangerous the conditions there could be at any given time. In Jan at Snowbasin my wife was carried about 100 feet down a blue run that avalanched. It was a small one but could have buried her. It had snowed the day before about 8 inches. Anyone who chooses to duck ropes in avy zones is risking their life as well as others. Those mountains out west are another world away from ours.

 

[PowderDeprived]

As tempting as it is to track up untracked pow on a closed trail, often if you get caught by the ski patrol they will usualy conficaste your pass or ticket. The one time I have gone under a rope was on a trail closed for racing, However I got permission from a race offical to slip the course. and unfourtionatly scrap fresh of pow off of it.

At places like SB and MRG you can go anywhere on the mountain but a closed trail, and you can't exit the trees onto a closed trail. I guess the reason for not allowing people on a closed trail doesn't really have much to do with liability, but insures the trail is clear for snowmaking operations etc... But as a skier it is really frustrating to see terrain that looks fine, you know is fine, that isn't open because your averege joey can't ski it. What ever happend to expert only, thin cover signs.

 

[thetrailboss]

If it is roped, I stay off of it. Period.

 

[RIDEr]

I respect the WC Patrollers and know that if a trail is closed, STAY OFF. They make every effort to open trails and based on the number of EC patrollers in each mountain they would do the same... Bottom line, RESPECT THE MOUNTAIN AND IT WILL RESPECT YOU.

 

[Greg]

We had a 13 page thread on trail poaching a few months ago:

http://forums.alpinezone.com/6023-trail-poaching.html

I will leave this one open however as the theme is a bit different in that it discusses East vs. West coast poaching and there already have been several replies.

 

[Phildozer]

If it is roped, I stay off of it. Period.

Amen.

Too many stories of people that poach trails, get run over by a snowcat/hit a snowgun/whatever. Their families sue the mountain for millions.

If a trail is closed, don't ski it. If you don't like the policy, buy your own mountain.

Then again, what would Darwin say?

 

[awf170]

Amen.

Too many stories of people that poach trails, get run over by a snowcat/hit a snowgun/whatever. Their families sue the mountain for millions.

If a trail is closed, don't ski it. If you don't like the policy, buy your own mountain.

Then again, what would Darwin say?

All I have to add to this is that if I didn't duck a rope then I wouldn't have skied this:

And this:

About ducking ropes out West I agree that is pretty stupid. Though some ropes are pretty pointless so I did go under a few(example: hiking out to something at Alta but found out it was crap so I cut back towards the lift and had to duck a rope to get back even though there was skiers on the other side of that rope. I really have no idea why it was there.

 

[blacknblue]

I've stood at many a rope and longed to ski the other side of it, believe me. But I'm in the "don't poach" camp on this one - East or West. If you buy the lift ticket/pass, you have to play by their rules. Same goes for virtually any other purchase we make. Even if the reasons seem ridiculous at times, it completely undermines the ski patrol and their work if we duck ropes just b/c we feel like it. What a disaster it would be if everybody picked and chose which rules to follow.

As for the fear of setting off an avalanche out west... true, but it seems a little paranoid. There are plenty of trails roped off in the early season for the same reasons as back east - thin cover. And, of course, "thin" is a pretty vague term, especially when "thin" looks like 2 feet of fresh powder!

 

[skibum1321]

I don't usually duck ropes even in the East, but I have done it before. I would never do it out west, since I don't know the terrain. And as many others have pointed out, there is always the risk of avys.

 

[dmc]

I poach..

 

[jackstraw]

I poach..

me too.

 

[tekweezle]

i would never go on roped off trail that had thin cover. I am allergic to rock damage. i have ducked a rope to use the quickest path to a lodge or a lift without traversing. I am allergic to uphill traverses too!

how do you all feel about resorts that close off trails to "save" them for the weekend?

 

[awf170]

i would never go on roped off trail that had thin cover. I am allergic to rock damage.

That is just insane IMO. Some of the best terrian in New England requires a least doing a little damage to your skis(atleast in low snow years like this)

 

[AdironRider]

Frankly its hard not to be pissed but you have to think about it from their point of view. Ski resorts are trying to make money, and in turn stay open so we can continue to enjoy them. If a resort opens up a run that usually sees alot of traffic on the weekend, and would end up being in ****** condition on said weekend if they dont close it all week, then they gotta do what they gotta do. Just like they rope off trails with thin cover or expert only, mainly because of the threat of a lawsuit. Its already hard enough to make money in the ski industry, so I guess they have to do something, as much as us diehards hate it.

 

[tekweezle]

That is just insane IMO. Some of the best terrian in New England requires a least doing a little damage to your skis(atleast in low snow years like this)

i'm not as hardcore as some of you. I tend to follow the rules and if a trail with thin cover is roped off, I figure it must be for good reason. I also ski slowly in those designated slow zones!

i onced ducked a rope on SS at Killington at the urging of one of my friends. it had been 50 degrees the day before and it was 20 degrees the next day and they were blowing snow so there was about a foot ontop of boilerplate. I slipped a ski and tumbled about 200-300 feet all the way to the bottom. that was not fun. couldn;t climb back up to retrieve the ski but got it later in the day.

 

[awf170]

i'm not as hardcore as some of you. I tend to follow the rules and if a trail with thin cover is roped off, I figure it must be for good reason. I also ski slowly in those designated slow zones!

I'm not talking about roped off stuff. I'm just saying some great stuff(especially glades) can have bad coverage and a lot of rocks and still be awsome. There are plently of rocks on open trails, especiallly at places like MRG, cannon, wildcat, jay peak, ect.