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June Mtn CA closing

legalskier

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...through 2013, possibly indefinitely. Mammoth, which owns June, says it's for re-tooling. However...

The carefully-worded declaration has prompted many in the Mammoth community and snow industry-at-large to speculate if the closure might not extend past the next winter season, possibly indefinitely. *** What made this report so shocking was not the news itself but the abruptness with which it came. June Mountain was scheduled to open for summer operations on Thursday, with planned-offerings of scenic chair rides and brunch at the historic lodge atop the legendary "Face." Yet many employees were notified only the day before -- a move similar layoffs at Mammoth in February, when unexpectedly dismissed approximately 70 year-round employees in one day. *** "This is going to be absolutely devastating to the whole community."
Story: http://espn.go.com/action/snowboard...rnia-june-mountain-closed-employees-laid-2013
 
Notifying the employees the day before? This makes me want to mail a resume to mammoth for next winter, secure a middle mgmt job and call them the day before opening and let them know I won't be showing up.
 
Wow corporate greed , they do not care about people and that is sad. they want a name to save june on FB for the promotion I think save June from RIP and i hope they do save it.
 
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Wow corporate greed , they do not care about people and that is sad. they want a name to save june on FB for the promotion I think save June from RIP and i hope they do save it.
This is really a very silly comment. Repeat after me: businesses are not charities. They do not exist to "care about people," while losing money. The press release said that June had been a money-loser since 1986. How long, exactly, are they supposed to operate unprofitably?

There's a limit to what a company can be expected to do, and at June Mountain that limit had been exceeded; perhaps more than exceeded. Would YOU have kept it open after more than 25 years of operating at a loss? Seriously?

I believe the backstory is that when they bought it, they expected to be able to connect June to the nearby and MUCH larger Mammoth Mountain resort, which they also own. They ran into a variety of permitting obstacles, and it became clear that this wasn't going to be feasible in the foreseeable future.

Of course, the local community is never happy to see a business close, but sometimes that just has to happen. The land is owned by the U. S. Forest Service, and if the current operators see no promise for it as a ski area, I'm sure the Forest Service will eventually try to find someone who does.
 
I lived in CA for several years and never once heard of anyone I know going to June. Mammoth is kind of a long way from anywhere and it dominates the scene in the area. Not surprised at all to see June close.
 
How's the skiing at June? Never really heard much about it from people whether IRL or online forums.
 
How's the skiing at June? Never really heard much about it from people whether IRL or online forums.

I visited Mammoth a few years ago, and in the course of my research found plenty of positive comments about June. Like any small ski area in the shadow of a much larger one, it has its fans. Actually, I don't recall any negative comments from people who'd actually gone there. But compared to Mammoth, it's like a speck on the head of a pin. You could spend a week at Mammoth and not run out of terrain, so it's hard to attract visitors to June.
 
How's the skiing at June?

I have skied June a number of times and it was a good place to ski when the wind howled at Mammoth and only the lower lifts were open, June would have plenty to ski off the top with few others to share it with. On a holiday weekend when half of LA had over run Mammoth, you could close your own tracks at June for poweder 8's. In a big snow year June is a great place to ski because not many people skied it on weekends. The problem with June is the longest sustained steep skiing is the lower mountain and that required above average snow to open. I'll be sorry to see June closed, but I have skied there with one other paying skier and the ski patrol wondering why they bothered from a financial perspective.
 
I have skied June a number of times and it was a good place to ski when the wind howled at Mammoth and only the lower lifts were open, June would have plenty to ski off the top with few others to share it with. On a holiday weekend when half of LA had over run Mammoth, you could close your own tracks at June for poweder 8's. In a big snow year June is a great place to ski because not many people skied it on weekends. The problem with June is the longest sustained steep skiing is the lower mountain and that required above average snow to open. I'll be sorry to see June closed, but I have skied there with one other paying skier and the ski patrol wondering why they bothered from a financial perspective.

Sounds like my kind of place, thanks for the mini review. I'm always amazed that people will deal with the crowds when there are often other options. The whole thing reminds me a bit of Mount Snow/Haystack. Sure do miss going over there when Mount Snow would get mobbed. At least Magic isn't too far, but nothing like having Haystack 5 minutes away. Who knows maybe another rich guy will buy June like the one who bought Haystack.
 
On a holiday weekend when half of LA had over run Mammoth, you could close your own tracks at June for poweder 8's. In a big snow year June is a great place to ski because not many people skied it on weekends.
The trouble is, when the main appeal of the place is that "no one goes there," it's not an economically viable proposition.
 
Bear Valley in CA is also having some issues. The article below has some interesting info in it. I wonder if the June lease has some similar restrictions. Could potentially make it easier for somebody else to reopen if the forest service can take possesion of the lifts and lodge...


http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_6f160396-bfa7-11e1-a213-0019bb2963f4.html

From the article....

One glimmer of hope comes from the Stanislaus National Forest, whose permits allow the resort to expand operations and operate the mountain’s ski area.
Copies of the ski area’s current agreement make clear that it would be more cost effective to operate at a loss than to invite forestry department penalties, which could include repossession of Bear Valley’s “structures and improvements.”
Patty Clarey, with Stanislaus’ Calaveras Ranger District, explained that the resort must be up and running for 120 days a year to avoid flirting with sanctions.
“There would be consequences for not opening and those are contained within the permit.” Clarey said.
 
The trouble is, when the main appeal of the place is that "no one goes there," it's not an economically viable proposition.

I think there is a market for low key resorts. Loveland, Monarch, Pow Mow, Mt Rose, Sierra at Tahoe all come to mind, there are others. In the end someone else will pick up this lease and likely run it to more competitively than Mammoth. That alone is an issue, Mammoth being a one resorts town.
 
How's the skiing at June? Never really heard much about it from people whether IRL or online forums.

I've skied at June. It's a great place with a lot of really nice terrain and usually it's quite uncrowed. While June does "lose money" it value was really more to enhance the draw of Mammoth. The East Coast analogy would be if Killington to Pico. I have to say this is a real shame because June was a special (and not so little) place. June had over 500 skiable acres and a verticle drop of about 2,500 ft. So while small compared to Mammoth its got as much skiing terrain there as Stratton does.

Closing it is a real lose for anyone who skis Mammoth on a regular basis.
 
The East Coast analogy would be if Killington to Pico. Closing it is a real lose for anyone who skis Mammoth on a regular basis.

I agree with your analogy as my Mammoth experience was enhanced by knowing I could hit June on the weekend for some uncrowded skiing and ski Mammoth during the week for uncrowded skiing. June was certainly less challenging on a low snow year when the "face" runs weren't open. That said there was excellent tree skiing off of the summit lift that would keep me busy all day. Stopping by the Tiger Bar in the town of June Lake for a beer after skiing was like being in a club house. People I had seen on the slopes would share a drink and talk.
 
This is really a very silly comment. Repeat after me: businesses are not charities. They do not exist to "care about people," while losing money. The press release said that June had been a money-loser since 1986. How long, exactly, are they supposed to operate unprofitably?

There's a limit to what a company can be expected to do, and at June Mountain that limit had been exceeded; perhaps more than exceeded. Would YOU have kept it open after more than 25 years of operating at a loss? Seriously?

I believe the backstory is that when they bought it, they expected to be able to connect June to the nearby and MUCH larger Mammoth Mountain resort, which they also own. They ran into a variety of permitting obstacles, and it became clear that this wasn't going to be feasible in the foreseeable future.

Of course, the local community is never happy to see a business close, but sometimes that just has to happen. The land is owned by the U. S. Forest Service, and if the current operators see no promise for it as a ski area, I'm sure the Forest Service will eventually try to find someone who does.

While I agree with the general sentiment, you're a bit off base in this particular situation.

FACT: By Mammoth's own preferred measure of profitability, June made money in at least 6 years between 1991 and 2006

FACT: Once the interconnect plan went by the wayside, Mammoth's only attempt to make June sustainable was to import a real-estate driven model that was entirely inappropriate for June's history, situation and starting point.

FACT: Mammoth never made an attempt to market June in the last decade. I'm a former Mammoth pass holder who bought lessons for his kids there and, as a result, I receive a constant stream of e-mail blasts about this, that and the other going on at Mammoth. It's reached Nigerian bank scam level frequency. I've also skied several times at June, also buying lessons. Yet I've received not a single e-mail related to June. This is a mtn that has an ideal set-up for young families due to the terrain, atmosphere and price point. Yet, despite the fact that e-mail blasts are essentially free to send out, neither I nor anyone I know has received anything related to June. Obviously, MMSA (the parent company) makes more from a skier visit to Mammoth than to June - do you think that's coincidence?

Hopefully, the mtn will be sold off to local interests and run along sustainable lines with a low-cost, family-friendly model. That is a viable way forward, and one that has never been explored so long as the hil was owned and operated by MMSA.
 
FACT: By Mammoth's own preferred measure of profitability, June made money in at least 6 years between 1991 and 2006.
As I understand you, it may have been unprofitable in nine out of fifteen years. And the best we know is that it might have been profitable six years ago (but it might have been ten or more). That is hardly much of an endorsement of June's viability. Of course, we don't know if it was barely making money in the six profitable years and lost bucketfulls of cash in the nine unprofitable ones; or vice versa.

I also wonder if, by "FACT", you mean "GUESS", given that you're not able to tell us in which years June was profitable, or by how much. I also worry about the phrase, "By Mammoth's own preferred measure of profitability," which in business is often a synonym for "unprofitable by most other measures". No one adverts to an eccentric Management-chosen measure if one of the generally accepted measures produces great results.

I mean, businesspeople are not usually motivated to get out of profitable businesses. It may be that their strategy for making the best of June was not optimal. That is all the more reason to say that this move is for the best, as perhaps it will be taken over by a new operator who better understands June's potential.

It'll be interesting, though, to see whether they are willing to allow a competitor into their footprint, who might conceivably make a lot more of June than MMSA ever did.
 
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As I understand you, it may have been unprofitable in nine out of fifteen years. And the best we know is that it might have been profitable six years ago (but it might have been ten or more). That is hardly much of an endorsement of June's viability. Of course, we don't know if it was barely making money in the six profitable years and lost bucketfulls of cash in the nine unprofitable ones; or vice versa.
Actually, we do know that. I had put a post together with a link to the relevant page but AZ ate it and what you saw was the abbeviated version. There is no doubt that June Mtn was a cumulative money loser since MMSA bought it. But MMSA has been claiming that June has lost money every single year since they bought it, when their own public documents indicate otherwise. the document to which I refer was their pitch to Mono County to allow a real estate development across the street from the base of the mtn and it had data up through the 2005-2006 season. It indicated that June made money in the last 4 years of the period and in two prior years as well. Again, this is not to say that June has been some great money maker - clearly it has not. Rather, it is to bring into question Mammoth's credibility on this issue when they are talking out of both sides of their moth depending upon what message happens to suit them at the time.


I also wonder if, by "FACT", you mean "GUESS", given that you're not able to tell us in which years June was profitable, or by how much.
As indicated above, you should feel free reverting to "FACT".


I also worry about the phrase, "By Mammoth's own preferred measure of profitability," which in business is often a synonym for "unprofitable by most other measures". No one adverts to an eccentric Management-chosen measure if one of the generally accepted measures produces great results.
Let me get this straight. You are choosing to ignore the measure of profitability that Mammoth's own mgmt chooses to use when assessing its financial performance? Instead, you are simply choosing to accept at face value their claim that it has been unprofitable for the last 25 years straight? How can such a claim be believed if Mammoth can select whatever financial metric that happens to serve its purpose that day? This is before we even get into thornier issues like attribution of season pass revenue. FWIW, the "eccentric" measure MMSA uses is called Resort Operating Income - essentially operating cash flow. I know - way out of the accounting box.

I mean, businesspeople are not usually motivated to get out of profitable businesses.
That's not the question though. There's no doubt June wasn't profitable as currrently run. The question is whether they were motivated to make June profitable in the first place. As discussed in my initial post, what would be the benefit to MMSA of driving higher traffic to June at a yield of $50/day when they could instead drive them to Mammoth at a yield of $100/day? The math isn't difficult here.

It may be that their strategy for making the best of June was not optimal. That is all the more reason to say that this move is for the best, as perhaps it will be taken over by a new operator who better understands June's potential.

It'll be interesting, though, to see whether they are willing to allow a competitor into their footprint, who might conceivably make a lot more of June than MMSA ever did.
That is indeed a good question. My guess is that MMSA will do everything in their power to prevent June's takeover by a well-capitalized group (e.g. Vail, CNL, Boyne, etc...), assuming one would be interested at all (which I doubt). I think the more likely path, and the one that is probably in June's long term interest, is that a local ownership group takes over and operates the mtn along low cost lines with three areas of focus:

1) Low-cost skiing for locals/families from June, Lee Vining and Bridgeport

2) Reasonably priced alternative to Mammoth for SoCal families seeking a true Sierra experience (snow, terrain, scenery, absence of LA noise)

3) Gateway to some of the best lift-accessed sidecountry in North America. A one-hour skin brings you to a variety of 4000 vert runs featuring wide open ramps, chutes, and trees in 300-350" of Eastern Sierra snow.

Day care
Lift/lodging deals with local inns
Single lift rides for $15-20 to access the BC
Guided skin tours or maybe even a cat

You would think that a ski area in financial trouble would experiement with some of these ideas. They are not exactly radical, but none of them were implemented under MMSA in recent years. Hopefully, new ownership will be the result of this decision and they will be able to operate June along the lines that it's phyical assets (natural and man-made) and starting point require.
 
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