Try, try again.

[Ski Diva]

Seems like this is a concept that's failed a number of times, but once again, someone is launching a new private ski club. We've all seen the failures -- the Yellowstone Club in Wyoming went bankrupt, as did Haystack in VT.

This one is on the site of a recently failed ski club, Bear Creek (formerly Round Top), right down the road from my house.

There was an informational meeting for township residents last week, which I unfortunately was unable to attend. But here's the skinny: it'll be run as a private club, so only people who buy in will be allowed to ski there. Also, as part of the initial stage, they'll be building 35 to 40 homes near the bottom of the mountain, probably in the million dollar price range.

Maybe this will bring my taxes down?

BTW, Bear Creek/Roundtop/Plymouth Notch, whatever you want to call it, is a very small ski area.

You can learn more at http://www.skithenotch.com/

 

[bvibert]

Seems like a bad time to be attempting a venture like that.

 

[Ski Diva]

Agreed.

 

[snoseek]

I personally LOVE the concept. Put all the *********s on one crappy little hill!

 

[WWF-VT]

I have no idea why they think this will be a succesful venture as Bear Creek didn't work.

Steep Membership fee, annual dues of $7000 an it looks like they plan to have skiing for about 40 days in the 2011-12 season

http://www.skithenotch.com/PN_Membership_Plan.pdf

 

[Nick]

Is this like a golf club membership for skiers

Sent from my Thunderbolt via Tapatalk

 

[soposkier]

"As a member of Plymouth Notch you will experience an environment without lift lines, terrain which will not be skied off by noon, backcountry skiing only found in the West and a Lodge which feels like your home."

How is it only found in the West if it can be found in VT?

 

[Nick]

They have built a teleportation device, obviously!

 

[Ski Diva]

Do the bears have to pay a membership fee? If not, how is it that they've left this income opportunity untouched?

http://www.skithenotch.com/bear_habitat.php

 

[soposkier]

They have built a teleportation device, obviously!

Well that would be worth the fee then. Think of the time saved over flying out west.

 

[TheBEast]

I personally LOVE the concept. Put all the *********s on one crappy little hill!

+1

But I'm not sure it will capture enough of them to make a difference.....

 

[Highway Star]

I hear it was great skiing on a powder day, though a bit flattish. Day tickets were like $75 when it was Bear Creek. One "vintage" double, limited snowmaking or grooming.

 

[AdironRider]

To be honest, I wouldnt mind being a member.

At least its somewhat attainable. Yellowstone Club has such a limited amount of people worldwide that could afford the price of entry. 7K a year is chump change compared to that.

 

[deadheadskier]

If I were them, I'd try and partner with Hawk Mountain. Offer home owners there a reduced membership rate. Then Hawk offers use of it's Pool, Fitness and Recreation facilities to Ski Club members who don't own property at Hawk. Maybe open up day use at the mountain for Hawk hotel guests, condo and home renters to bring in a bit more income without making it over crowded.

Wonder what the critical mass of people is for the venture to be successful.

 

[Highway Star]

Call me captain obvious, but for this sort of thing to work it has to be all of the following:

1. A desireable ski area by regional standards
2. Directly ajacent to a large first tier ski ski resort.
3. Provide reasonable value to it's members
4. Have sustainable economics

Charging a family $7000 for a season pass to a sub 1000ft vert, one double chair resort.....does that make any sense??? Being 30 minutes from Killington or Okemo?

If they do get 250-350 member families, they will probably have enough of a budget to run the place.

 

[Highway Star]

Wonder what the critical mass of people is for the venture to be successful.

A double chair does 1200 rides per hour. A short one can very crowded with 400-500 people on the hill.

 

[AdironRider]

25k buy in and 7k a year for an entire families worth of skiing, plus pool, restaurant, etc. For the average intermediate family that skis a bunch thats not a bad pricing structure.

Notably, I see alot of Sunapee clientel being interested. The intermediate Killington and Okemo families as well.

 

[mister moose]

25k buy in and 7k a year for an entire families worth of skiing, plus pool, restaurant, etc. For the average intermediate family that skis a bunch thats not a bad pricing structure.

Notably, I see alot of Sunapee clientel being interested. The intermediate Killington and Okemo families as well.

Really? For a family of 5 you can get a full season skiing for 4-6k with no membership fee at larger mountains with no 25k buy in. If the club craters in 3 years, you can up your yearly cost by another 8k. On top of that, they are scheduling a less than 40 day season.

The kind of people that would seem to be a good fit would be somewhat wealthy low intermediate families. There didn't seem to be enough of them to keep Bear Creek going.

I've skiied there, once a long time ago when it was Roundtop, and once 4 years ago as Bear Creek. The vertical isn't bad, but it does ski small after a while. There really is no expert terain, its very Okemo like in that respect, if not even more so. There's some fun blue/black terrain. It was clear the snowmaking/grooming budget was limited the day I was there. The lack of crowds was great I have to say.

There are quite a few existing older houses and condos there from prior years. I wonder how they fit in to the membership.

The year I was there, the big push was selling condos in the "Soon to be built" cluster of condos to the left (south) of the lodge. No condos were ever built.

I think they are aiming way too high in their pricing structure. It needs to be at an attractive price level, not the exclusive price level. I wish them all the luck in the world though. I think it would be great if they found the right mix of offerings and price to make a go of it. They sure are trying it out at a very tough time in the economy.

 

[AdironRider]

Really? For a family of 5 you can get a full season skiing for 4-6k with no membership fee at larger mountains with no 25k buy in. If the club craters in 3 years, you can up your yearly cost by another 8k. On top of that, they are scheduling a less than 40 day season.

The kind of people that would seem to be a good fit would be somewhat wealthy low intermediate families. There didn't seem to be enough of them to keep Bear Creek going.

I've skiied there, once a long time ago when it was Roundtop, and once 4 years ago as Bear Creek. The vertical isn't bad, but it does ski small after a while. There really is no expert terain, its very Okemo like in that respect, if not even more so. There's some fun blue/black terrain. It was clear the snowmaking/grooming budget was limited the day I was there. The lack of crowds was great I have to say.

There are quite a few existing older houses and condos there from prior years. I wonder how they fit in to the membership.

The year I was there, the big push was selling condos in the "Soon to be built" cluster of condos to the left (south) of the lodge. No condos were ever built.

I think they are aiming way too high in their pricing structure. It needs to be at an attractive price level, not the exclusive price level. I wish them all the luck in the world though. I think it would be great if they found the right mix of offerings and price to make a go of it. They sure are trying it out at a very tough time in the economy.

If this was a golf club, 25k is cheap.

You are thinking to much from your budget and not from the budgets of the prospective market. Not saying they are going to be successful, but this is by far the best presentation Ive seen from this type of setup yet, especially on the East Coast. Theres no point to a private club that everyone can get in to right? That would be like your town making the public pool private, then still only charging a buck to let your kids swim. Whats the point?

 

[mister moose]

If this was a golf club, 25k is cheap.

You are thinking to much from your budget and not from the budgets of the prospective market. Not saying they are going to be successful, but this is by far the best presentation Ive seen from this type of setup yet, especially on the East Coast. Theres no point to a private club that everyone can get in to right? That would be like your town making the public pool private, then still only charging a buck to let your kids swim. Whats the point?

If this were a golf club, all they would have is 5 holes, all par 3 except 1 par 4, and a restaurant. So yes, 25k is still pricey, given all the other requirements, and given the risk factor of the club not surviving. This is not a going, healthy concern. It will exist at the whim of the owner, who can pull the plug or sell it at any time of his choosing.

Both Bear Creek and the New Improved Plymouth Notch don't give you any ownership rights whatsoever. They are asking you to buy an expensive house, yet offer zero assurances that the lifts will turn. Zero legal claim to the prospective homeowner for continued operation. If you were one of the few that bought a house during Bear Creek, you now need to pay to join Plymouth Notch. If Plymouth Notch decides to close, you have no legal abilty to form a co-op with the other homeowners and run the lift. You are relying on the goodwill of the owner.

You seem to be missing the point that this was just tried in better economic times from 1996 to 2009 at the the same mountain, and didn't work. This is the second go around. Their "presentation" at Bear Creek was better than what you see on Plymouth Notch's website currently. They only sold a couple houses, and zero condos. The prospective market has spoken.

I stand by my remarks.