VAIL SUCKS

[thetrailboss]

Yeah kelley Ayotte! Words I would never thought i would say!

Again, election year. This was low hanging fruit for her. Most folks will forget this in November.

 

[machski]

I do try to go at least 1 day somewhere else every season (went to Pico this year on Ikon but also do K on Ikon sometimes). There were even several years that I bought an Epic Day pass (specifically so I could ski a day at Stowe). For me personally, a <$20 difference would not make me want to restrict my choices that much. I guess for me, even if I don't use it, I like knowing I have the flexibility and option to do so should the right situation come along.

Vail probably crunched the numbers and saw it just wasn't worth the hassle to fight on this for the small subset of people this would apply to in the overall grand scheme of things.

Ok, but that is all in one state. Just like DHS was referring to

 

[thetrailboss]

Not a lot in money now, but wait til Vail jacks up the % tax. At least NH set precedent now.

Well, I take them at their word that this pool is going to pay the local sales and use taxes that folks would have to pay. And again, that would be a nasty job for Vail HQ to figure out with all these resorts.

 

[machski]

Well, I take them at their word that this pool is going to pay the local sales and use taxes that folks would have to pay. And again, that would be a nasty job for Vail HQ to figure out with all these resorts.

I have no doubt, I just am not 100% certain it stays at the current rate. So while it's pocket cash now, good of NH to address right now. They did, Vail budged and now up to individuals what they want to do if NH residents. Best outcome really, you have options.

 

[deadheadskier]

Money is money folks!

 

[thetrailboss]

"I THINK THAT YOU F*UCKING NEW HAMPSHIRE WOODCHUCKS SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR ME RECONSIDERING. THAT MIGHT NOT HAPPEN NEXT YEAR!"

 

[thetrailboss]

(By the way I added the "*" because AZ is now automatically censoring cuss words. )

 

[cdskier]

Seems like a lot of ink, emotion, and energy for what is $31.77 for a full EPIC and $24.77 for a local pass. I get the principle argument and you all know that I can get fired up about principle, but that’s not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. My sales tax (9%) results in a big hit, but $31.77 is relatively minor. It’s still money though. What is that, the cost of a beer or an “I Love Vail” hat?

The solution they offered is a good compromise. They probably should have looked at all that data to see that there were a lot of NH residents who only ski in NH and thought ahead about offering this NH only option. But I imagine that the plan was to spread the tax burden amongst all passholders regardless of their location.

This doesn't apply to the full Epic or even the Epic local. The most expensive pass it applies to is the Northeast Value pass. So the max savings right now is right around $20 at the current prices (I don't remember if Epic is still the earliest prices or if they increased them yet).

Ok, but that is all in one state. Just like DHS was referring to

My example was just to illustrate seeing no value in saving $20 to limit my options. If Alterra said "we'll let you get a Sugarbush only pass for $20 less", I'd say no. I'm sure there are also people that ski the MWV regularly where a day trip or weekend to Stowe is not out of the question.

 

[deadheadskier]

$20 parking incoming for Wildcat and Attitash

 

[cdskier]

$20 parking incoming for Wildcat and Attitash

That would be absolutely hysterical...and very Vail-like! Better hope Bobby doesn't read this forum!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Yeah if one stays only in NH…..

That's what I predicted a bunch of posts back, I mean, it makes perfect sense frankly.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Hopefully Vail is now aware that they own ski areas in New Hampshire

Reportedly when this issue was brought up by media the Vail PR person said, "we don't own any ski resorts in Delaware".

 

[BenedictGomez]

$20 parking incoming for Wildcat and Attitash

That would be absolutely hysterical...and very Vail-like!

It would be 100% Vail like to seek vengeance & punishment.

 

[Mum skier]

Today’s bottle of wine

 

[thetrailboss]

Today’s bottle of wineView attachment 68873

 

[skef]

Contrasts here: US vs. Europe, Vail vs. Alterra/Boyne/…, winter vs. summer

 

[urungus]

Contrasts here: US vs. Europe, Vail vs. Alterra/Boyne/…, winter vs. summer

Great thought provoking video, although Sugarbush skiers may think he lets off Alterra too easily

The annual numbers mentioned for VAIL really show where the companys priorities lie:

Mountain Capital Expenditures (new lifts, lodges, snowmaking) = $225 m

Share Buybacks + Dividends = $265 m + 330m = $595 m

 

[Teleskier]

Great thought provoking video, although Sugarbush skiers may think he lets off Alterra too easily

That was an excellent video and analysis (thanks Skef for sharing!), however I had that same exact thought as Urungus. Northern VT seems to evidence the contradictory case.

Other thoughts while watching the video:

Canada, despite having more serious mountains than the US (just my gut feel?) spends only a fraction of the US, yet gets off Scot-free here. And Canada is famously a more socially democratic country than the US, and closer to European values. Yet this suggests it has similar 'ski economics' as US, or worse?

100+ person ski trams? Was that REALLY the right call? Am I the only person thinking ahead to the next COVID/contagious disease outbreaks, and grateful I get to ride on safe US outdoor quad chairs in the fresh air? I have a hard enough time with bubble covers on chairs, even when the tenth person is at the very other end, but coughs and sneezes the whole ride. Sorry fellow chair folks, the bubble goes up now.

I concur with the argument against the slow US fixed grip quads, it's a very good and very valid point (looking at you Sugarbush, and maybe also Smugs), however he conveniently ignores the fact that Americans view J-bars and all surface lifts as antiquated '<1970' lifts, and I suspect US Gen-Z finds them too 'scary' or a 'difficult hassle' as well, doubly so for younger US snowboarders? My local ski hill as a kid still had J-bars, so they're still within my cultural memory, but I'm likely an older-person outlier than most US skiers today.

What, the vast Scandinavian ski country areas are not included as Europe? That might dilute his argument a bit.

While I agree with most the POV in the video, it's #1 point that US corporations should not exist, nor reward its investors with dividends, was a little too strong, even for me. If he was a ski industry investor, he might feel differently? And non-skiing Americans, might likely object to having their pooled communal town tax dollars, going to support skiing areas, here seen as an elite sport for the rich versus common man (unlike Europe)?

But very thought-provoking video during the off-season! I'm still chewing on it...

 

[bigbob]

Trying not to get political, but European government money gets mixed in for ski resort investment. If the US pulls out of NATO and they have to pay there own way, will government subsidies for ski resorts dry up in Europe.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Trying not to get political, but European government money gets mixed in for ski resort investment. If the US pulls out of NATO and they have to pay there own way, will government subsidies for ski resorts dry up in Europe.

I don't really see that as "political" per se, we're already seeing various European nations having to scale back on myriad "programs" as is. Everyone focuses on Trump pulling away from Europe militarily like you are, which yes, will cost Europe money, but far fewer focus on how the Trump Administration is trying to make it so that America doesn't subsidize Europe's' healthcare like we've been doing for decades, and IMHO that will have a greater effect if he's actually able to untether. Godspeed to Trump in that endeavor, but as someone who's spent his entire career in pharma, IMHO Trump will likely fail. This is a long-winded way of saying that European public gondys and lift infrastructure is the last of the EU's worries if Trump actually does succeed. I imagine some of the fervor will be cultural as well, like to some of those EU nations ditching the "ski stuff" wont be a big deal, but to others (Austria or Switzerland perhaps?) they'll probably hang on for dear life.